OMC: Did it ever happen -- did it finish?

JG: No, the encyclopedia did not, but I did Bay View and the West End, and "Bay View, Wisconsin" came out in '79. It was published by -- the copyright is held by the UW Regents. And "The West End," which was Concordia, Pigsville and Merrill Park on the West Side, and a guy named Tom Tolan began the history of Riverwest that he finished in May -- his was not published until about five years ago, so those were the three. And that's about as far as it got. ... They were short, "Bay View" was 100 pages and "West End" was 106 pages.

OMC: Was "The Making of Milwaukee" in a sense a culmination of all of the things that came before? Would you have done "The Making of Milwaukee," if you hadn't led up to it with this kind of path?

JG: No. And where that began was -- by that time -- so say it began in '72, when I began to write stuff about Milwaukee, and it wasn't until 1994 or '95 when I began to work on "The Making of Milwaukee," so I had 20-plus years of bits and pieces. And I felt both the psychological need, and I felt there was a not a market need but a community need for something that was weightier, more comprehensive -- the whole story, not bits and pieces.

OMC: Did you always want to do that kind of book?

JG: No. It was hard.

OMC: That's why I wondered if it would be an audacious idea to say to yourself at some point, "I'm going to write what will be, at least for a little while, or maybe for a long while, the definitive history of the city"?

JG: It was intimidating. I spent four years on that project. I can recall living in Bay View and going downtown to research and just seeing the skyline of the town, which is not exactly overwhelming, but it ... we're a big city, and thinking, "I've got to tell the story of all this." And feeling, like, how in the world ...

OMC: Not to mention all of the fingers that radiate out from that.

JG: Right. How do you do that?

OMC: Do you have any regrets about it afterward?

JG: I've gotten a couple more swings. It's in its third edition now, which is more an update.

OMC: So, you've been able to go back and tinker a little.

JG: I've tinkered a little: added pictures that we've found -- wonderful photographs that we didn't have the first time around in 1999. But, no, I think it's a pretty solid piece of work.

OMC: You've become a local celebrity, which not many historians can say. "The Making of Milwaukee" probably cemented it, huh?

JG: Yeah, and the TV show. The recognition from people who don't necessarily read -- sort of channel surf and say, "oh, that's interesting."

OMC: Do you think there is anyone else in town doing the kind of work you're doing?

JG: Boy, Harry Anderson, the retired director of the Milwaukee County Historical Society had done research on the Bund during World War I and World War II, and I don't know if he plans to publish or not; Steve Avella, you know Steve, he's in the Marquette history department, he's updating his book on the Archdiocese, which is a pretty sizeable piece of work. A lot of the Arcadia stuff ...

It would be nice to have more. The Arcadia stuff, like Frank Alioto's book on Brady Street ... it's wonderful to have it collected between two covers with a photographic portrait of an area; they're very useful. But, they're limited in terms of the scope.

OMC: Tell me a little bit about what you're working on at the moment, if you can.

JG: Just in the production for history of Milwaukee's Jewish community, it's going to be called "One People, Many Paths", and it's a history of Jewish Milwaukee. The manuscript was finished about a month ago and we're gathering photos and hope to be out by November. That's been really interesting. It's been my main project for the last year and a half or so. ... And there hasn't been one on the Jewish community since about 1963 - a Rabbi named (Louis J.) Swichkow turned a dissertation into a book and it was well done -- very helpful. Very academic, quite dry. This is a stronger narrative book.

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Recent Talkbacks ...

Posted by Nuclear_Art on June 24, 2009 at 9:19 a.m. (report)

There was a village known as Deer Creek Village on the bluff around Superior and Russell. This was listed in an article and accompanying map in the Milwaukee Journal of December 13, 1925. Of course by the 1890s that area was built up with factories and houses so the village was long gone by that time. I have a transcription of the article and map shown here: http://oldmilwaukee.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=166

Posted by kinnickinnic on June 24, 2009 at 2:43 a.m. (report)

As my screen name indicates, I have an interest in Bay View, and Kinnickinnic Ave. I would really love to know more about the Native American history of Bay View. When I was a little boy in the early 1950's, my Grandfather told me "indians" still walked the path and picked wild herbs to smoke. This was when he was a boy in the 1890's. He showed me a spot where indians had a camp on Russell Street. And, he had an arrowhead collection, all of which were gathered in Bay View. Does anybody know more??

Posted by nfholton on June 23, 2009 at 4:57 p.m. (report)

Nice interview! I'm actually reading The Making of Milwaukee now and the book is absolutely terrific! I'm sure a lot of readers have been there and done that, but if not, I would encourage everyone to check it out. We can't understand where we are and where we need to go without first understanding how we got here.

Posted by julesj0812 on June 23, 2009 at 11:36 a.m. (report)

When I'm asked who my top 3 people (living or dead) would be to have lunch with, John is always the top pick. John Gurda is someone more Milwaukee citizens should be aware of! I wish he had a more wide-spread notoriety. As a young person, I'm usually teased for my rabid curiosity in Milwaukee history. I wish more people (especially my generation) had an appreciation and an interest for how far Milwaukee has come - and for how different a city it really is. John, you keep writing, I'll keep reading!

Posted by barbhaig1 on June 23, 2009 at 11:31 a.m. (report)

Terrific interview! John has done such a tremendous job helping define and describe our city's neighborhoods - it's great to hear about his academic and social justice background.