shary26 | July 29, 2008 at 12:37 p.m. (report)

There will forever be pirate hookers out there working it for a free drink so long as there are douchebags out there who are willing to buy one for them. Just be proud that you don't have to resort to that and let natural selection take care of the rest.

Shcro1 | July 23, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. (report)

I don't believe that I ever said that they make the rest of us look bad for their behavior. What I was trying to say is that women have been treated like sex objects for far too long. There is nothing wrong with coming out and looking your best, but do you have to objectify yourself in the process. You should want to buy your own drinks, and not depend on a man in order for you to have a good time. I do think it's demeaning, and if those of you don't agree, well you're entitled to that. This was not me attacking women, but saying we really need to present ourselves better if we want to be treated better by men. If you want to see a similar blog about the behavior of men, then perhaps you should write it, and give me the esteemed pleasure of judging your opinion!

cheesebabe74 | July 23, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (report)

This is a conversation that is indicative of many other parts of our culture. Why are we always looking to women's behavior? When a woman sits in a courtroom to talk of rape or assault, questions of where she was, what she was doing, what she was wearing may hit the table. Fewer questions of what he was doing, where he was, what he was wearing become scrutinized.

When women behave badly, they are chastized, critiqued, commented on. When men behave badly, we sigh and wave a hand.

In recent public culture, we've had questions arise about proper mothering--the mother who leaves her baby in a garbage can, the mother who doesn't report her missing child until months later, even Yates, the mother who drowned her children.

Our conversations revolve so heavily on whether or not the women were guilty, entitled, sane, "right" or more...

In sex ed, women are taught all sorts of things about their bodies, we have safety classes in college, blue light systems women are acutely aware of but may not register as quickly on men's radar.

In a sexual assault advocacy class, a group of equal parts men and women, the leader asked "what do you do as you walk to your car in a parking lot?" Different women raised their hands "Put my keys in my fingers like this...(and demonstrated)" "I look under the car before I get in" "I have my keys ready" "I seal up my purse" "I walk purposefully"

The men in the room were in awe. Two of them answered simultaneously "I didn't even get the question... I just walk to my car"

When you post "observations" about a night out and focus so heavily and with such detail on the actions of the women (who I find, frankly, entreprenuerial) and spend little to no time talking of the actions of men in bars (how about the "wing man" how about the ways men hit on women? How about the gazes, the oogling, the buying of drinks?), you're positioning the conversation to continually make women the only responsible parties out there.

Men are responsible for social interaction too. I'd welcome a similar blog about the men who indulge these women, encourage them even. I'd welcome a similar conversation on men's moves in bars, framing them as equally unholy and also, as you have done here, framing them as representative of the gender as a whole. When you say women are demeaning themselves and making other women look bad, I caution you.

I don't look worse when four hotties do their thing. I look the way I hope to present myself. Those four don't control me, nor do you control them. There are far greater sins in our social sector. The imbalance of gender naming and blaming, I find, is one.

Shcro1 | July 22, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. (report)

Sandstorm, this comment was made before you and I decided to play nice. Don't take it too seriously.

Shcro1 | July 21, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. (report)

You don't have to "buy it" cuz I wasn't selling it. I merely stated that in my blog, because I knew there would be women like you, who would try and make that argument about me being jealous, and you couldn't be more wrong. I just want women to think more of themselves, that's all. My tone wasn't whiny, it was frustration. I don't need to prove anything to someone I never met and have no desire too. The fact that you are defending this so much makes me wonder if you're one of the girls who likes to whore herself out for a drink. Oh and yes that was me on my high horse. I'm bored with commenting on this with you because we will never agree. So let's agree to disagree kiddo!