For 40 years, Howard Schnoll has been the man behind the scenes of Milwaukee’s biggest party. As a member of the Summerfest Board of Directors since the event’s inception in 1968, Schnoll -- who is currently the board’s chairman -- has seen it morph from a scattered and struggling event to a tradition unmatched in the city.
This Summerfest will be his last as chairman; he will step down from his position next February. OnMilwaukee.com sat down with Schnoll in his Downtown Milwaukee office to talk about where Summerfest started, where it is and what lies in store for the future.
OMC: Mayor Henry Maier got the idea for Summerfest after a trip to Munich’s famous Oktoberfest. What was his charge when he got the ball rolling for Summerfest?
Schnoll: His charge was to have an event that was affordable for the people of Milwaukee. He said that there were a lot of people who don’t have the cottages up north or the lake houses or lots of things to do in the summer. Most people can’t afford country clubs and needed a form of affordable entertainment. He wanted us to make it somewhat on the basis of what Oktoberfest did. If you look at it today, I think we’ve accomplished that. The amount of talent we have for that ten-day period and the price people pay to get in ($15). Then, with all the free deals … if people really look, they can get in free every day. When you look at the amount of entertainment available, no question it is the most affordable venue in the country. And it is the World’s Largest Music Festival. From that standpoint, I think we’ve accomplished what Mayor Maier wanted us to do.
OMC: The first Summerfest was held at different locations at different times over its first year, and it was in pretty deep financial trouble early on.
HS: It was actually after the second year that we got into trouble. That year, we were only doing it on one weekend. We were doing some things at the lakefront that year and it rained every day of that weekend. After the second year, we were $600,000 in debt and in pretty deep trouble. We had no way to pay it, for all practical purposes. John Kelley was very active at the time; he was the owner of Midland Bank. The Mayor went to John and he got us an unsecured $250,000 loan which was almost impossible to do. The other thing we did was make an agreement with Gooding’s Million Dollar Midway. We got them to prepay three years’ of rent for a three-year contract. That put us back on our feet.
OMC: The old Main Stage provided a lot of great memories, but it was the Amphitheater that kind of saved Summerfest and brought it into the modern era, wasn't it?
HS: No question about it. With that, we can book any size act today in the Amphitheater. And we still try to have as many free seats as we can, and if we cant have free seats we try to keep the lawn seats as affordable as possible. It’s one of those things that falls into our main goal; keeping everything affordable.
OMC: A lot has been made in recent years about Summerfest’s finances. How strong is the festival in terms of revenue?
HS: Today, from a financial standpoint, we’ve done a great job of building up reserves. We have about $9 million available for our capital reserve and we have about $5 million available for our operating reserve.
OMC: That operating reserve can be a life-saver, so-to-speak, given the unpredictable nature of weather around Milwaukee.
HS: That’s key. If we really have a bad rainout, we could have been in big trouble. Now we think we could really weather one terrible year. We’ve always been able to get through a couple of days of bad weather, but we think we’re in good shape if there is really just a terrible, terrible year. A total rainout could be disastrous because we spend our money all out ahead of time.
OMC: You’ve been fortunate; aside from the early years there really hasn’t been a year where the weather is just devastating.
HS: We’ve had a few bad days in the past. But you come through those and Milwaukeeans are pretty tolerant. They can handle some rain.
OMC: What’s next in terms of building on the grounds? The south end has been a spot without much to do for years. Is there a plan in place for the next phase of upgrades?
HS: The park requires continual repair and maintenance. Our goal is to make it as clean and as neat as Disney World. There need to be things done to do that, there is past repair to work on. Some stages are getting older; we need some sponsors to step forward and do what Miller Brewing did. We need to improve those stages; either by getting the sponsors to make the contributions or find somebody else if they can’t. The whole south end needs to be re-evaluated totally. In terms of the location of the gates, probably another stage will be down there. We have a group that will be meeting soon and we hope to have something done by 2010.
OMC: People, a lot of times, think of Summerfest just as something to do for a week or so come July. But it really does a lot -- not just by putting the city on the map -- but does a lot for the economy, too.
HS: Our economic impact is tremendous. We hope to do a study this year to find out exactly what it really is because I really believe it’s a lot higher than most people think. I know one of the kids that was coming to perform (a member of June 30 headliner, The Fray), and he couldn’t find a hotel room. It was almost impossible, which is a good sign for us!
OMC: How do you respond to people who Summerfest is paying too much attention to drawing the Downtown condo crowd as opposed to the general population?
HS: I would disagree with that. We’ve got the people who grew up here when they were younger and aren’t coming back. That’s the group we’re trying to target. We want to get those people to come back. True, those people (who live in the Downtown, Third Ward, East Side neighborhoods) may have more money to spend, but it doesn’t mean that we’re not trying to get everybody. We’re trying to bring back those who haven’t come back in recent years. I think we’re doing a good job, but we’re not trying to stop anybody else from coming. We’re not changing our plan; the talent represents every type of person. It’s not like we’re having the symphony every night.
OMC: Personally, I think having the Milwaukee Symphony playing a show during Summerfest would be a great event for one night.
HS: We tried that a couple years ago. It was a problem, but it doesn’t mean we won’t work on it or try it again. There are a couple things that are a part of our long-range planning in terms of using the grounds more. We’ll figure out ways to do that.
OMC: How has Don Smiley made an impact on Summerfest? He’s heading into his third year at the helm.
HS: We renewed his contract starting next January for another four years. He’s here, he’s settled in now and he really knows what’s going on. He’s a bright guy and he’ll come up with some good ideas of what we need to do next. I think that one of Don’s major goals has been to get us national attention, and I think he’s done that. I think with Country Music Television he’s done that. They’re coming back for a second year to tape concerts for their network and that’s great for the City of Milwaukee. The other thing he suggested, which we’re now doing, is calling it "Milwaukee Summerfest." That, too, is great for the city.
HS: We’ve tried. We’ve talked to them. We’ve been talking to them for three years and given them information. That’s bothersome, but we’ll work on it. We’re working on some ideas. Internationally … the hits on our Web site are unbelievable.
OMC: How difficult was the transition from Bo Black to Don Smiley? It got a lot of play in the local press and there are still a lot of people who think that Bo got a raw deal.
HS: It was very difficult and I was right at the front of it all. I’ve known Bo since she was an assistant to Henry Jordan (the former Green Bay Packers player who was Summerfest’s first executive director). She did some great stuff for me when I was chairman of the Finance Committee. The second year she was there, I told her we needed to get a million dollars in sponsors. She thought it couldn't be done, but she did it and continued to do a great job. We feel bad that her health has been bad because she’s done a great job for us.
OMC: You said at the time that Summerfest was going in a new direction. What did you see in Don and how has he transformed the job?
HS: We wanted to increase our national exposure. We looked for a professional manager, which Don really is. We’ve gotten our costs under control better. It’s a big business, budgeting becomes very important as does staying within budget. It’s almost like an entrepreneur running a business and then bringing in professional management. I would almost say that Bo was an entrepreneur, and Don is a professional manager. It’s moving up a level.
OMC: Is there talk about recognizing Bo’s accomplishments at the festival, or on part of the grounds?
HS: There will be something, yes. It will probably be announced right around the opening. There’s no question about it.
OMC: Milwaukeeans love a bargain. And while it’s easy to find free admission, many still say $15 is too much to pay for admission. How hard is it to find a balance between ticket prices and the price of booking top-of-the-line acts?
HS: Without our sponsors, and the companies that buy tickets for their offices, we couldn’t do it. The price hasn’t gone up in a few years. We said for the 40th year, we weren’t going to raise prices. It’s our constant goal to keep it affordable. If people want to get in free, there are many ways to do it. The food and beverage prices are very competitive. Most of our vendors have places here in the city and they have to keep their prices the same, unlike a lot of other venues.
OMC: How important is the local connection for the festival and vendors?
HS: We want the local people and business to succeed because they’re good at it and they enjoy being here. We have an excellent food committee made up of the best restaurateurs in the city. They check out potential vendors, and are very active in looking, tasting, and eventually bringing in free food.
OMC: So there is always an active search to bring in something new?
HS: There’s always a space for something new. We try to make sure everybody is happy and that they’re doing a good job, but there’s always room to grow.
OMC: What kind of response do you get from the community?
HS: I will walk up to people during the festival and ask them where they’re from, how many times they come and what they’re doing at the festival. There are so many people that just come year after year. Many people take their vacation and spend it down there every year. It’s amazing to me how much people enjoy it and how much it’s a part of their summer.
OMC: Late nights at Summerfest can be notoriously crowded and hectic. How do you find a way to attract families, or people who aren’t interested in crowds, music and being seen?
HS: If you don’t like crowds, Summerfest is fantastic during the day and early evening. There’s always entertainment going on. We encourage people with kids to come down, eat, and have a great time. Just like any venue around here, 10 p.m. is when people first go out. I’m sure they’d like us to stay open until 2, but 12 is enough for us. During the day though, it’s a great place to go for lunch. There are all kinds of lunch deals there, too.
HS: I think having a good venue was probably the most important factor. It’s a fantastic setting. People say that it’s too valuable of real estate and that you should be building condos there, but you can’t even build on that land because it’s a land grant from the state. What we’re doing there is just fabulous. The venue, the people-watching; one of the neatest things I always do is walk along the lake. It’s where people are really enjoying themselves. When I’m there, I always look around and you can see every different type of person; all people of Milwaukee … they’re all there. That’s what’s neat about it. It’s a place for people to hang out, listen to music, not listen to music and have something good to eat. I think we’ve accomplished what Mayor Maier had in mind. He was a great visionary.
OMC: How did you get involved with Summerfest? Obviously, you were asked by the late Mayor Maier to help get things started, but how did that all come about?
HS: I had my own accounting firm at the time. The first president of Summerfest was a client of mine, and he asked me to get involved. I did, and we set up the books, and as it started we had to figure out that it was a cash business.
OMC: When you’re dealing with a cash business, you need to operate a little differently than other organizations or businesses. How well did that process work?
HS: Well, when you have a cash business, you need to figure out some controls. We set up controls on the vendors, and the midway was always the toughest part. No matter what you figured out, they came up with something new every year. It was a great challenge, but we kept making it tougher and tougher on them. I was always amazed … we’d catch something and they’d say 'I don’t know how that could happen.' Sometimes, we’d audit and find two sets of tickets. We’d go through them by hand -- because they would have to come get the tickets from us -- and sometimes, we’d find tickets with the same numbers. That’s the kind of stuff we could find.
OMC: Speaking of the midway, removing it was a somewhat controversial decision. Is there any talk of bringing it back, or has that ship sailed for good?
HS: I don’t think we have room for it at this point. Could we do something outside? I don’t know; I don’t think it fits exactly with what we’re doing. I don’t think it adds to us, but you never know.
OMC: Maier Festival Park itself is somewhat landlocked with the Italian Community Center to the west, Urban Park to the north, and the river and lake on the south and east borders. Is there room for expansion; perhaps in the Marcus Amphitheater area?
HS: Not at this point, no. Ideally, if it could work and there were a way to expand out onto the island (Lakeshore State Park) for the 10 days would be kind of neat. Even as a state park, right now there’s no thought of that, but maybe a few years down the road once the park gets working, there might be a way to expand during the festival and bring the people out. It would be so nice, but we’ll see. This year is the first year the park will be operational, and it really makes the venue good.
OMC: It seems that the entire area of the lakeshore is enjoying a sort of renaissance.
HS: It is, you sit there and look at the site with the island park, Pier Wisconsin, Discovery World and the Arts Center, it’s great. And when we try to redesign some of the stages, we’re going to try to take that water view into account. We want to make it better. And Lakeshore State Park will be totally connected to everything, so you can walk all the way around. I think you’ll see people from downtown spend more time there. It’s great.
OMC: With your long association with Summerfest and Milwaukee World Festival, the evolution of the ethnic festivals has to also be a point of pride.
HS: The big ones have really done well. Some of the smaller ones, it’s a challenge. It’s a challenge for us, and it’s a challenge for them. We keep looking at them and trying to figure out what we can do to help them and make the festivals better. We have people from Summerfest; certain persons assigned to each festival. We work hard with them, and it’s great to see them have success and do well. What other city in the country do you have that? The people that are involved in the ethnic festivals are great people. They’ve been around and add to us, and we’re glad to have them a part of it all.
OMC: If Mayor Maier could come and see what Summerfest has become today, what do you think he would think of his dream?
HS: I guess he would be one proud guy. This was his dream, and I think he would say that we enhanced his dream. We’ve accomplished what he set out to do; we’ve made it affordable, and the entertainment and food are outstanding. One of the things we need to do is get more national attention, and we’re working on it.
